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Lacka Hatch

 
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salmobytes



Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:47 pm    Post subject: Lacka Hatch Reply with quote

I spent yesterday afternoon visiting my old friend Tom and his buddy
Pete.
Tom is 68 and Pete 87. These old Ennis Montana old timers are among
the oldest (former) Montana fishing guides still kicking around. Tom
and Pete
told me stories about fishing the Missouri below Tosten dam in the
late 1960s,
when mayfly hatches were so thick the surface of the river looked like
it had
the whirlies.

Today, some 40 odd years later, the hatches there are nearly non-
existent.
What's made the difference? Tom said he thinks it's agricultural
pesticides.
The Missouri down near Wolf Creek still has some good hatches
(although nothing
like they used to be) but that water comes out of three dam, deep
water
filtering system. The Missouri in the Tosten area shallow, containing
undiluted
runnoff from millions of acres of fields, all sprayed regularly with
an every
increasing diversity of noxious chemicals.

Tom said he'd asked various Fish and Game biologists about his theory.
They all said "Sure, we think that too. But we have no baseline data
from
50 years ago, and therefore no way to prove the allegation."

Still, as the old timers can tell you, the hatches are nothing like
they used to be.

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Halfordian Golfer



Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Lacka Hatch Reply with quote

On Feb 13, 12:47 pm, salmobytes wrote:
> I spent yesterday afternoon visiting my old friend Tom and his buddy
> Pete.
> Tom is 68 and Pete 87. These old Ennis Montana old timers are among
> the oldest (former) Montana fishing guides still kicking around. Tom
> and Pete
> told me stories about fishing the Missouri below Tosten dam in the
> late 1960s,
> when mayfly hatches were so thick the surface of the river looked like
> it had
> the whirlies.
>
> Today, some 40 odd years later, the hatches there are nearly non-
> existent.
> What's made the difference? Tom said he thinks it's agricultural
> pesticides.
> The Missouri down near Wolf Creek still has some good hatches
> (although nothing
> like they used to be) but that water comes out of three dam, deep
> water
> filtering system. The Missouri in the Tosten area shallow, containing
> undiluted
> runnoff from millions of acres of fields, all sprayed regularly with
> an every
> increasing diversity of noxious chemicals.
>
> Tom said he'd asked various Fish and Game biologists about his theory.
> They all said "Sure, we think that too. But we have no baseline data
> from
> 50 years ago, and therefore no way to prove the allegation."
>
> Still, as the old timers can tell you, the hatches are nothing like
> they used to be.

Great story.

Reminds me of this guy I'd see sitting out in his pickup truck at the
South Canyon dump near Glenwood Springs. I swear, he'd just sit out
there all damned day. I was clearing some brush so was making dozens
of trips out every weekend for a whole summer. Well, I got to know him
pretty well. He was old, I know that, how old? Not sure. One time I
told him I'd been fishing on main elk creek and he said, "Ya, I used
to go up there, but I quit. Too easy. All a feller needs is one of
them hopper flies. Watch for bears".
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Guy



Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:40 am    Post subject: Re: Lacka Hatch Reply with quote

"Halfordian Golfer" wrote in message @e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 13, 12:47 pm, salmobytes wrote:
>> I spent yesterday afternoon visiting my old friend Tom and his buddy
>> Pete.
>> Tom is 68 and Pete 87. These old Ennis Montana old timers are among
>> the oldest (former) Montana fishing guides still kicking around. Tom
>> and Pete
>> told me stories about fishing the Missouri below Tosten dam in the
>> late 1960s,
>> when mayfly hatches were so thick the surface of the river looked like
>> it had
>> the whirlies.
>>
>> Today, some 40 odd years later, the hatches there are nearly non-
>> existent.
>> What's made the difference? Tom said he thinks it's agricultural
>> pesticides.
>> The Missouri down near Wolf Creek still has some good hatches
>> (although nothing
>> like they used to be) but that water comes out of three dam, deep
>> water
>> filtering system. The Missouri in the Tosten area shallow, containing
>> undiluted
>> runnoff from millions of acres of fields, all sprayed regularly with
>> an every
>> increasing diversity of noxious chemicals.
>>
>> Tom said he'd asked various Fish and Game biologists about his theory.
>> They all said "Sure, we think that too. But we have no baseline data
>> from
>> 50 years ago, and therefore no way to prove the allegation."
>>
>> Still, as the old timers can tell you, the hatches are nothing like
>> they used to be.
>
> Great story.
>
> Reminds me of this guy I'd see sitting out in his pickup truck at the
> South Canyon dump near Glenwood Springs. I swear, he'd just sit out
> there all damned day. I was clearing some brush so was making dozens
> of trips out every weekend for a whole summer. Well, I got to know him
> pretty well. He was old, I know that, how old? Not sure. One time I
> told him I'd been fishing on main elk creek and he said, "Ya, I used
> to go up there, but I quit. Too easy. All a feller needs is one of
> them hopper flies. Watch for bears".

See any bears?

We were deer hunting below Flaming Gorge on the Utah side near Little Hole
in the early 70's. 4-wheel only back then. No deer so we got our rods out
and "pounded" the fish. Another group of people setup camp a couple of
hundred feet from us. Not hunters or fishers. Horses, impressive cameras,
not an outdoor group of people. We had our limit of giant trout and thought
we would offer them some fish for dinner so we could continue angling the
next day. My buddy, Dave and I walked too their camp and asked if they would
like some fish. They said the fresh fish sounded allot better than what they
had been eating for the last few days. We talked with them a few minutes and
then went to get the trout. As soon as we left them, Dave said "That is
Robert Redford." I said "You are shittin' me." When we took the trout back
to them, I payed a little more attention to the faces. Yep, it was him. We
didn't say anything about recognizing him and the conversation led to the
reason they were out in that remote area. A pictorial article for National
Geographic following the old Oregon Trail. When we returned from another
killer day on the Green, there was a note in front of our tent along with a
sack if biscuits thanking us for the trout. The biscuits were bad. We fed
them to the chipmunks.

Guy
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flebow



Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 57

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:41 am    Post subject: Re: Lacka Hatch Reply with quote

On 13-Feb-2008, Halfordian Golfer wrote:

> n Feb 13, 12:47 pm, salmobytes wrote:
> > I spent yesterday afternoon visiting my old friend Tom and his buddy
> > Pete.
> > Tom is 68 and Pete 87. These old Ennis Montana old timers are among
> > the oldest (former) Montana fishing guides still kicking around. Tom
> > and Pete
> > told me stories about fishing the Missouri below Tosten dam in the
> > late 1960s,
> > when mayfly hatches were so thick the surface of the river looked like
> > it had
> > the whirlies.
> >
> > Today, some 40 odd years later, the hatches there are nearly non-
> > existent.
> > What's made the difference? Tom said he thinks it's agricultural
> > pesticides.
> > The Missouri down near Wolf Creek still has some good hatches
> > (although nothing
> > like they used to be) but that water comes out of three dam, deep
> > water
> > filtering system. The Missouri in the Tosten area shallow, containing
> > undiluted
> > runnoff from millions of acres of fields, all sprayed regularly with
> > an every
> > increasing diversity of noxious chemicals.
> >
> > Tom said he'd asked various Fish and Game biologists about his theory.
> > They all said "Sure, we think that too. But we have no baseline data
> > from
> > 50 years ago, and therefore no way to prove the allegation."
> >
> > Still, as the old timers can tell you, the hatches are nothing like
> > they used to be.
>
> Great story.
>
> Reminds me of this guy I'd see sitting out in his pickup truck at the
> South Canyon dump near Glenwood Springs. I swear, he'd just sit out
> there all damned day. I was clearing some brush so was making dozens
> of trips out every weekend for a whole summer. Well, I got to know him
> pretty well. He was old, I know that, how old? Not sure. One time I
> told him I'd been fishing on main elk creek and he said, "Ya, I used
> to go up there, but I quit. Too easy. All a feller needs is one of
> them hopper flies. Watch for bears".

And another great story - thanks guys

It was always better in the olden days - they say???
In these cases it is probably true,

They say that Patagonia is like MT 50-75 yrs ago
Thats why it is on my list Wow!

Fred

Fred
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Willi



Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Lacka Hatch Reply with quote

flebow@highaltitudes.net wrote:
> On 13-Feb-2008, Halfordian Golfer wrote:
>
>> n Feb 13, 12:47 pm, salmobytes wrote:
>>> I spent yesterday afternoon visiting my old friend Tom and his buddy
>>> Pete.
>>> Tom is 68 and Pete 87. These old Ennis Montana old timers are among
>>> the oldest (former) Montana fishing guides still kicking around. Tom
>>> and Pete
>>> told me stories about fishing the Missouri below Tosten dam in the
>>> late 1960s,
>>> when mayfly hatches were so thick the surface of the river looked like
>>> it had
>>> the whirlies.
>>>
>>> Today, some 40 odd years later, the hatches there are nearly non-
>>> existent.
>>> What's made the difference? Tom said he thinks it's agricultural
>>> pesticides.
>>> The Missouri down near Wolf Creek still has some good hatches
>>> (although nothing
>>> like they used to be) but that water comes out of three dam, deep
>>> water
>>> filtering system. The Missouri in the Tosten area shallow, containing
>>> undiluted
>>> runnoff from millions of acres of fields, all sprayed regularly with
>>> an every
>>> increasing diversity of noxious chemicals.
>>>
>>> Tom said he'd asked various Fish and Game biologists about his theory.
>>> They all said "Sure, we think that too. But we have no baseline data
>>> from
>>> 50 years ago, and therefore no way to prove the allegation."
>>>
>>> Still, as the old timers can tell you, the hatches are nothing like
>>> they used to be.
>> Great story.
>>
>> Reminds me of this guy I'd see sitting out in his pickup truck at the
>> South Canyon dump near Glenwood Springs. I swear, he'd just sit out
>> there all damned day. I was clearing some brush so was making dozens
>> of trips out every weekend for a whole summer. Well, I got to know him
>> pretty well. He was old, I know that, how old? Not sure. One time I
>> told him I'd been fishing on main elk creek and he said, "Ya, I used
>> to go up there, but I quit. Too easy. All a feller needs is one of
>> them hopper flies. Watch for bears".
>
> And another great story - thanks guys


I concur some great stories.


>
> It was always better in the olden days - they say???
> In these cases it is probably true,

>
> They say that Patagonia is like MT 50-75 yrs ago
> Thats why it is on my list Wow!


That nostalgia thing often is just that. In the US, the quality and
quantity if fishing available is MUCH greater than it was 50 years ago.
The only downside, IMO, is that it is also much more crowded. 50 years
ago a fly fisherman was an odd sort of guy who fished in rubber pants.
Today fly fishing is a "cool" thing to do.

Willi
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Charlie Choc



Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Lacka Hatch Reply with quote

On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 08:24:59 -0700, Willi wrote:

> 50 years
>ago a fly fisherman was an odd sort of guy who fished in rubber pants.
>Today fly fishing is a "cool" thing to do.
>
And breathable waders have a lot to do with it being cooler.
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com
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salmobytes



Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Lacka Hatch Reply with quote

ly fishing is a "cool" thing to do.
>
> Willi

Hi Willi:

Yes, a lot of places are better. But that waaay down low
stretch on the Missouri (in a heavily farmed agricultural area)
really is noticably worse than it was 20 years ago (I remember it
from 20 years back).

And those old timers were talking about that Deepdale stretch
(now called York's Island) 50 years ago when (they said) there
were prolific hatches there. And now hardly a bug to be seen.
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Halfordian Golfer



Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Lacka Hatch Reply with quote

On Feb 14, 10:05 am, salmobytes wrote:
> ly fishing is a "cool" thing to do.
>
>
>
> > Willi
>
> Hi Willi:
>
> Yes, a lot of places are better. But that waaay down low
> stretch on the Missouri (in a heavily farmed agricultural area)
> really is noticably worse than it was 20 years ago (I remember it
> from 20 years back).
>
> And those old timers were talking about that Deepdale stretch
> (now called York's Island) 50 years ago when (they said) there
> were prolific hatches there. And now hardly a bug to be seen.

This seems like a serious problem to me. Worth a letter to MF&G or the
State Capital? Maybe even MTU?

Tim
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Willi



Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Lacka Hatch Reply with quote

salmobytes wrote:
> ly fishing is a "cool" thing to do.
>> Willi
>
> Hi Willi:
>
> Yes, a lot of places are better. But that waaay down low
> stretch on the Missouri (in a heavily farmed agricultural area)
> really is noticably worse than it was 20 years ago (I remember it
> from 20 years back).
>
> And those old timers were talking about that Deepdale stretch
> (now called York's Island) 50 years ago when (they said) there
> were prolific hatches there. And now hardly a bug to be seen.
>


I wasn't disputing what your observations I was just reacting to "good
old days" nostalgia (which can be fun!).

I grew up in the Midwest. When I was a kid, the Great Lakes were "dead"
and we were told that it would take 100's of years for them to get
clean, one river was so polluted it caught on fire!, soapsuds would pile
up in my local creeks so high that the piles were over my head, people
routinely littered and pulloffs nears streams were often laden with old
refrigerators, cars etc., communities had to find alternative sources of
drinking water because of pollution, etc.

Willi
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flebow



Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 57

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Lacka Hatch Reply with quote

On 14-Feb-2008, Willi wrote:

> > Yes, a lot of places are better. But that waaay down low
> > stretch on the Missouri (in a heavily farmed agricultural area)
> > really is noticably worse than it was 20 years ago (I remember it
> > from 20 years back).
> >
> > And those old timers were talking about that Deepdale stretch
> > (now called York's Island) 50 years ago when (they said) there
> > were prolific hatches there. And now hardly a bug to be seen.
> >
>
>
> I wasn't disputing what your observations I was just reacting to "good
> old days" nostalgia (which can be fun!).
>
> I grew up in the Midwest. When I was a kid, the Great Lakes were "dead"
> and we were told that it would take 100's of years for them to get
> clean, one river was so polluted it caught on fire!, soapsuds would pile
> up in my local creeks so high that the piles were over my head, people
> routinely littered and pulloffs nears streams were often laden with old
> refrigerators, cars etc., communities had to find alternative sources of
> drinking water because of pollution, etc.
>
> Willi

I have to admit that in some cases things are getting better
The State is trying to clean up the ness left by minimg companie on the
Clark Fork and other rivers
There is a big program near Missoula to remove years of toxic sediment

Fred

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