Experiences with SBT 951's?

Chris Buford · Joined: 18 Aug 2007 Posts: 6

Needing motor for 99 GSXL- any experiences with SBT engines? Can't decide
whether to rebuild or replace with SBT. Opinions please. Thanks!

Archived from group: rec>sport>jetski

GPRVET · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 5

Using for rec riding? Racing? I would use Watercraft Magic or Rossier before
SBT. May be slightly more $$ (maybe)but way better quality rebuild. You dont
want to screw around with cheaper parts that are typically used, especially
on a 951. IMO of course.
"Chris Buford" wrote in message$9men$1@news3.infoave.net...
> Needing motor for 99 GSXL- any experiences with SBT engines? Can't decide
> whether to rebuild or replace with SBT. Opinions please. Thanks!
>
>

Tom Howlin · Joined: 18 Aug 2007 Posts: 36

It's hard to rebuild your own ski for what SBT charges for a motor
(assuming you have a good core) if you need for than just a top end. As
a dealer, we used many of them over the years with almost no problems
(and those few problems we had were corrected by SBT in a New York
minute). Certainly there are some guys out there that rebuild motors
"by hand" that do a better job because they are literally blueprinting
the motor for you as they go but the cost reflect that. For
recreational riding, an SBT motor will go longer than the factory motor,
IMHO. If you were racing, I'd say go with someone who specializes in
building race motors. Bill O'Neal has built more than a few motors in
his life. He built one for Gary on our lake here and that thing ran day
in and day out at WOT and never missed a beat - only 951 I ever saw do that!

Tom

Chris Buford wrote:
> Needing motor for 99 GSXL- any experiences with SBT engines? Can't decide
> whether to rebuild or replace with SBT. Opinions please. Thanks!
>
>

GPRVET · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 5

The core is part of the problem. Major unknown what they will say. I don't
think SBT is going to put the parts into the rebuild I would want. I have
seen some funkie crank bearings etc... in some of their stuff. The have to
make money and with the price they quote cost has to be kept down. There is
no way a SBT rebuild is going to last longer than a late model 951. If you
are talking the mid 97 and 98 model 951's maybe. I would spend a few extra
bucks and if the core is an issue then the cost may be same or even less.
"Tom Howlin" wrote in message$kic$1@bob.news.rcn.net...
> It's hard to rebuild your own ski for what SBT charges for a motor
> (assuming you have a good core) if you need for than just a top end. As
> a dealer, we used many of them over the years with almost no problems
> (and those few problems we had were corrected by SBT in a New York
> minute). Certainly there are some guys out there that rebuild motors
> "by hand" that do a better job because they are literally blueprinting
> the motor for you as they go but the cost reflect that. For
> recreational riding, an SBT motor will go longer than the factory motor,
> IMHO. If you were racing, I'd say go with someone who specializes in
> building race motors. Bill O'Neal has built more than a few motors in
> his life. He built one for Gary on our lake here and that thing ran day
> in and day out at WOT and never missed a beat - only 951 I ever saw do
that!
>
> Tom
>
> Chris Buford wrote:
> > Needing motor for 99 GSXL- any experiences with SBT engines? Can't
decide
> > whether to rebuild or replace with SBT. Opinions please. Thanks!
> >
> >
>

skier4life · Joined: 18 Aug 2007 Posts: 1

What about the blocks have changed since 98?

"GPRVET" wrote in message$mi6.51267640@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
> The core is part of the problem. Major unknown what they will say. I don't
> think SBT is going to put the parts into the rebuild I would want. I have
> seen some funkie crank bearings etc... in some of their stuff. The have to
> make money and with the price they quote cost has to be kept down. There
is
> no way a SBT rebuild is going to last longer than a late model 951. If you
> are talking the mid 97 and 98 model 951's maybe. I would spend a few extra
> bucks and if the core is an issue then the cost may be same or even less.
> "Tom Howlin" wrote in message
> $kic$1@bob.news.rcn.net...
> > It's hard to rebuild your own ski for what SBT charges for a motor
> > (assuming you have a good core) if you need for than just a top end. As
> > a dealer, we used many of them over the years with almost no problems
> > (and those few problems we had were corrected by SBT in a New York
> > minute). Certainly there are some guys out there that rebuild motors
> > "by hand" that do a better job because they are literally blueprinting
> > the motor for you as they go but the cost reflect that. For
> > recreational riding, an SBT motor will go longer than the factory motor,
> > IMHO. If you were racing, I'd say go with someone who specializes in
> > building race motors. Bill O'Neal has built more than a few motors in
> > his life. He built one for Gary on our lake here and that thing ran day
> > in and day out at WOT and never missed a beat - only 951 I ever saw do
> that!
> >
> > Tom
> >
> > Chris Buford wrote:
> > > Needing motor for 99 GSXL- any experiences with SBT engines? Can't
> decide
> > > whether to rebuild or replace with SBT. Opinions please. Thanks!
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>

GPRVET · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 5

Dude go with a Seadoo expert to get a motor like Watercraft Magic/Bill
'O/Mel Miller or Rossier/Rick. You will be a happier guy in the long run.
951's are something you want done with the best avail parts. Dont go cheap.
"Chris Buford" wrote in message$9men$1@news3.infoave.net...
> Needing motor for 99 GSXL- any experiences with SBT engines? Can't decide
> whether to rebuild or replace with SBT. Opinions please. Thanks!
>
>

PWCFRAZIER · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 35

> I would use Watercraft Magic

Bill (WCM) is an SBT dealer and frequently sells and endorses SBT blocks. I
also endorse SBT. I have had good experiences with their engines for both rec
and racing use. With the volume of engines that SBT sells, you are bound to
get some defects just like any other major line of manufacturing. I truly
believe that the margin of error of dealer rebuilds is significantly higher
than SBT's worse days.
SBT truly provides a great service to the PWC community. I do not think people
have taken the time to fathom how SBT has helped to keep the PWC sport afloat
by allowing owners to repair even obsolete PWC within a moderate budget.
Longer running PWC means more replaced grips, seat covers, props, etc. This is
really good for all of us!

Fraz

Jim R. · Joined: 18 Aug 2007 Posts: 20

I just ordered an SBT motor to replace my grenaded 951, Scott. I have zero
doubt that it'll be a good motor....especially after I take it to Bill for
set up after dropping it in. As far as getting a new boat, I'm leaning more
to the STXR after riding my buddy Juan's last weekend. Nice boat.

Jim R.

"PWCFRAZIER" wrote in message@mb-m23.aol.com...
> > I would use Watercraft Magic
>
> Bill (WCM) is an SBT dealer and frequently sells and endorses SBT blocks.
I
> also endorse SBT. I have had good experiences with their engines for both
rec
> and racing use. With the volume of engines that SBT sells, you are bound
to
> get some defects just like any other major line of manufacturing. I truly
> believe that the margin of error of dealer rebuilds is significantly
higher
> than SBT's worse days.
> SBT truly provides a great service to the PWC community. I do not think
people
> have taken the time to fathom how SBT has helped to keep the PWC sport
afloat
> by allowing owners to repair even obsolete PWC within a moderate budget.
> Longer running PWC means more replaced grips, seat covers, props, etc.
This is
> really good for all of us!
>
> Fraz
>

David B. Thomas Jr. · Joined: 18 Aug 2007 Posts: 6

SBT has put a dent in the number of new short blocks that Seadoo sells
to the point that they are buying salvaged engines. The way I
understand it is that they are going to offer a rebuilt engine with a
warranty that covers both parts and labor.
Dave

PWCFRAZIER wrote:
>>I would use Watercraft Magic
>
>
> Bill (WCM) is an SBT dealer and frequently sells and endorses SBT blocks. I
> also endorse SBT. I have had good experiences with their engines for both rec
> and racing use. With the volume of engines that SBT sells, you are bound to
> get some defects just like any other major line of manufacturing. I truly
> believe that the margin of error of dealer rebuilds is significantly higher
> than SBT's worse days.
> SBT truly provides a great service to the PWC community. I do not think people
> have taken the time to fathom how SBT has helped to keep the PWC sport afloat
> by allowing owners to repair even obsolete PWC within a moderate budget.
> Longer running PWC means more replaced grips, seat covers, props, etc. This is
> really good for all of us!
>
> Fraz

--
David B. Thomas Jr
Blew-By-You PWC Services
93-A Pine Burr Rd Lumberton, MS 39455
(601) 796-2033 http://www.blewbyyou.com or http://www.blewbyyou.net

The Esquilax · Joined: 18 Aug 2007 Posts: 6

word.

try telling somebody with a '94 gtx that they need to drop $2500 into
it... forget it.

SBT- start rebuilding VTS assemblies as well, make a 'top end' kit, with
pistons and cylinders bored to match on exchange....

i hope seadoo is getting gouged by SBT doing cheap rebuilds. maybe they
can come off the ridiculous prices a bit....

$65 for a rave valve that needs no post-cast machining? ridiculous!

greg

PWCFRAZIER wrote:
>
> > I would use Watercraft Magic
>
> Bill (WCM) is an SBT dealer and frequently sells and endorses SBT blocks. I
> also endorse SBT. I have had good experiences with their engines for both rec
> and racing use. With the volume of engines that SBT sells, you are bound to
> get some defects just like any other major line of manufacturing. I truly
> believe that the margin of error of dealer rebuilds is significantly higher
> than SBT's worse days.
> SBT truly provides a great service to the PWC community. I do not think people
> have taken the time to fathom how SBT has helped to keep the PWC sport afloat
> by allowing owners to repair even obsolete PWC within a moderate budget.
> Longer running PWC means more replaced grips, seat covers, props, etc. This is
> really good for all of us!
>
> Fraz

Richard Giguere · Joined: 18 Aug 2007 Posts: 25

GPRVET wrote:
>
> The core is part of the problem. Major unknown what they will say. I don't
> think SBT is going to put the parts into the rebuild I would want. I have
> seen some funkie crank bearings etc... in some of their stuff. The have to
> make money and with the price they quote cost has to be kept down. There is
> no way a SBT rebuild is going to last longer than a late model 951. If you
> are talking the mid 97 and 98 model 951's maybe. I would spend a few extra
> bucks and if the core is an issue then the cost may be same or even less.

SBT pin and welds their cranks, if a company is going to that, they have
to be committed to quality, I would use SBT for rec. riding. A one year
no questions asked warranty, what more could you ask for. As far as
bearings go, there all the same unless they come from some third world
country, if a bearing or seal fails SBT will replace the engine for
free.

RG

RG

Richard Giguere · Joined: 18 Aug 2007 Posts: 25

GPRVET wrote:
>
> The core is part of the problem. Major unknown what they will say. I don't
> think SBT is going to put the parts into the rebuild I would want.

If you hop the engine up, you void the warranty. May as well have a race
engine built if your not going to keep it stock. You could put carbs and
a pipe on it and they would never know, just don't tell them I told you
that.

Rick

Richard Giguere · Joined: 18 Aug 2007 Posts: 25

GPRVET wrote:
>
> The core is part of the problem. Major unknown what they will say. I don't
> think SBT is going to put the parts into the rebuild I would want.

You will be "lucky" to get a 90 day warranty any where else, for a
company to stand behind a two stroke engine for a year, they must have
allot of confidence is what they build.

Rick

Greggy B · Joined: 18 Aug 2007 Posts: 1

all three of these post you made were well articulated thoughts,
richard, i agree.

greg

Richard Giguere wrote:
>
> GPRVET wrote:
> >
> > The core is part of the problem. Major unknown what they will say. I don't
> > think SBT is going to put the parts into the rebuild I would want.
>
> You will be "lucky" to get a 90 day warranty any where else, for a
> company to stand behind a two stroke engine for a year, they must have
> allot of confidence is what they build.
>
> Rick

Tom Howlin · Joined: 18 Aug 2007 Posts: 36

Damn Richard, we actually agree and thanks for the thoughtful,
intelligent post.

Tom

Richard Giguere wrote:
>
> GPRVET wrote:
>
>>The core is part of the problem. Major unknown what they will say. I don't
>>think SBT is going to put the parts into the rebuild I would want. I have
>>seen some funkie crank bearings etc... in some of their stuff. The have to
>>make money and with the price they quote cost has to be kept down. There is
>>no way a SBT rebuild is going to last longer than a late model 951. If you
>>are talking the mid 97 and 98 model 951's maybe. I would spend a few extra
>>bucks and if the core is an issue then the cost may be same or even less.
>
>
> SBT pin and welds their cranks, if a company is going to that, they have
> to be committed to quality, I would use SBT for rec. riding. A one year
> no questions asked warranty, what more could you ask for. As far as
> bearings go, there all the same unless they come from some third world
> country, if a bearing or seal fails SBT will replace the engine for
> free.
>
> RG
>
> RG