All work and no play slows China's Olympians - the Times

JD · Joined: 18 Aug 2007 Posts: 8

This is really fascinating.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/article3329991.ece

Archived from group: rec>sport>rowing

Stephen and Jane · Joined: 18 Aug 2007 Posts: 23

JD wrote:
> This is really fascinating.
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/article3329991.ece

Doesn't the Chinese approach demonstrate everything that can be bad about
top level sport? It remains to be seen, but I can't be alone in my
suspicion that these games will have an undertone as far removed from the
Olympic ideal as it is possible to be. One wonders if even the performing
smilers have to go through such gruelling training - the kids used in the
ceremonials etc.- let the world's cameras see a crack in the facade at their
peril.

Did the Olympic committee think that giving the Olympics to Beijing would
foster positive sporting ideals and opportunity as China emerges from behind
closed doors - or was it something else? Whatever the intention, it seems
the pre-existing doctrines which encourage bullying and abuse of the
individual in the name of fortune (for the few) and glory (for the state)
have been magnified rather than mitigated.

Coming from a rich first world country I couldn't blame athletes (especially
impoverished ones) for "doing it for the money" but I am sorry that they
risk damaging their physical and mental health in the process - it needn't
be that way. I don't see why athletes can't benefit financially, as well as
spiritually, from doing well in sport - but the scale is important. BIG
money and ideals are not good bedfellows - just look at English Premier
League football.

JD - It is an intriguing suggestion that China has attracted all the expert
dopers by paying them lots of money, leaving would-be cheats elsewhere at
the mercy of incompetent quacks. At first, I giggled at such a preposterous
thought - but then again.....?

Jane.

bookie · Joined: 18 Aug 2007 Posts: 17

On Feb 9, 12:16 am, "Stephen and Jane"
wrote:
> JD wrote:
> > This is really fascinating.
> >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/article3329991.ece
>
> Doesn't the Chinese approach demonstrate everything that can be bad about
> top level sport? It remains to be seen, but I can't be alone in my
> suspicion that these games will have an undertone as far removed from the
> Olympic ideal as it is possible to be. One wonders if even the performing
> smilers have to go through such gruelling training - the kids used in the
> ceremonials etc.- let the world's cameras see a crack in the facade at their
> peril.
>
> Did the Olympic committee think that giving the Olympics to Beijing would
> foster positive sporting ideals and opportunity as China emerges from behind
> closed doors - or was it something else? Whatever the intention, it seems
> the pre-existing doctrines which encourage bullying and abuse of the
> individual in the name of fortune (for the few) and glory (for the state)
> have been magnified rather than mitigated.
>
> Coming from a rich first world country I couldn't blame athletes (especially
> impoverished ones) for "doing it for the money" but I am sorry that they
> risk damaging their physical and mental health in the process - it needn't
> be that way. I don't see why athletes can't benefit financially, as well as
> spiritually, from doing well in sport - but the scale is important. BIG
> money and ideals are not good bedfellows - just look at English Premier
> League football.
>
> JD - It is an intriguing suggestion that China has attracted all the expert
> dopers by paying them lots of money, leaving would-be cheats elsewhere at
> the mercy of incompetent quacks. At first, I giggled at such a preposterous
> thought - but then again.....?
>
> Jane.

actually there was an article, in the times also I think, about the
selection and rigorous training of the medal bearers for the games.
the people running the games in beijing have advertised for girls of s
set height weight age etc etc to put themselves forward for training
in smiling and deportment and all the rest of that kind of 'finishing
school' stuff so they can be medal bearers at the games.

So yes, the organisers are putting "the kids used inthe ceremonials
etc" through gruelling training as you proposed

personally i am not surprised that the chinese are using this
opportunity to show the evil west how 'great' and 'strong' they are,
show the powerful might of the chinese state, regardless of the
personal cost to the people who make up that state.

bookie

paul_v_smith · Joined: 18 Aug 2007 Posts: 48

On Feb 8, 12:12 pm, JD wrote:
> This is really fascinating.http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/article3329991.ece

While I can figure a way to agree with the general sentiment, this
statement seems completely idiotic.

"Together, though, they seem to agree on one thing - that China's
obsession with heavy training is taken to such extremes that even if
they do sweep the medals at their own Games, they will be seriously
underperforming."

If "they sweep the medals" and "are seriously underperforming", why
did they "sweep the medals" at all? Surely it's not just because they
have the most outstanding talent pool to draw from in the entire
world. That statement, which "they seem to agree on one thing", looks
more an excuse being made by 'they'. Surely their talents should have
been put to use creating athletes who will perform optimally, yet
still be beaten by "underperformers".

No, I'm not a proponent of "more is better" at face value; but quite
often, doing more than others is exactly what is required to beat
them.

- Paul Smith

Stephen and Jane · Joined: 18 Aug 2007 Posts: 23

bookie wrote:
> actually there was an article, in the times also I think, about the
> selection and rigorous training of the medal bearers for the games.
> the people running the games in beijing have advertised for girls of s
> set height weight age etc etc to put themselves forward for training
> in smiling and deportment and all the rest of that kind of 'finishing
> school' stuff so they can be medal bearers at the games.
>
> So yes, the organisers are putting "the kids used inthe ceremonials
> etc" through gruelling training as you proposed
>
> personally i am not surprised that the chinese are using this
> opportunity to show the evil west how 'great' and 'strong' they are,
> show the powerful might of the chinese state, regardless of the
> personal cost to the people who make up that state.
>
> bookie

Last night we had an interesting conversation with some Chinese friends just
back from Beijing. They told us that although much has yet to be done (e.g.
some crucial transport links are not yet ready) everyone is confident that
the Games will be perfect. The people know that their government is
prepared to take whatever extreme measures are required.

However the 'perfect' image portrayed to the world will be even more of a
fleeting one than in previous games elsewhere. They told us that for the
two weeks of competition all factories, government and public offices will
be closed. The ring roads around the city will be closed and private cars
will not be allowed into the city. Any cars on the road will be
transporting competitors or officials.

One of the skills being 'taught' to the medal bearers/meeters and greeters
is to smile only showing a maximum of 4 teeth. So when the sport gets
boring, we can amuse ourselves by counting the dentition on show.

What a contrast to the Commonwealth Games in Manchester - where masses of
volunteers were recruited from ALL sections of society, many came away with
useful qualifications (NVQs) and all were treated with respect. The low
ticket prices made the games accessible to everyone. We went for two
afternoons and the atmosphere was brilliant: very non-partisan, happy and
really friendly. The opening and closing ceremonies were low key, inclusive
and unusually honest - showing Manchester culture warts and all (almost).
Mind you the 'gravy train' aspect was still much in evidence. One of my GP
partners was a volunteer and while the athletes needed little medical
attention, the international Blazerati were most demanding, expecting (and
often getting) treatment for all sorts of pre-existing conditions "while
they were here".

Jane and Stephen

Mike Sullivan · Joined: 18 Aug 2007 Posts: 244

"JD" wrote in message @v46g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
> This is really fascinating.
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/article3329991.ece
>

It is interesting.

What happens to the athletes in China doesn't offend me near as much as
what we do to kids in our programs here, like gymnastics, skating,
swimming etc, having 14 year old kids give up their childhoods for
the greater glory of parent/club/country in no particular order.

What's doubly hard is that our kids have other choices, other things
they can be doing where for Chinese athletes, that's the best shot
they have at a decent life.

Granted, there are some kids who push themselves- the parents
are appalled. I've seen them. But the competitive standards are
such that it pushes kids with talent into very intense regimens.

Here's a question. What if it works? What if out of the billions of
people they have, their selection procedures and over-the-top training
finds enough freaks out there that are outstanding athletes and have
the physiology to respond to it?

I read an article about an earlier Oly games, maybe Barcelona where
the Swedish 4x200 men's swim relay finished close to the US.
Sweden has such a small athlete pool in swimming compared to the
US, how did they do it? The answer was a much more individually
crafted training program nurturing the top athletes along, where the
US takes a million kids and tosses them against the wall every year
to see who sticks. I look at what my daughter swims in college, it's
nuts, it's crazy.

If the Chinese ARE successful, I can well imagine a lot of coaches in
various
sports getting with that program.

Gold medal standard times The Aussies are reported to be targeting 6.00 dead as the GMS time for the mens 2x, given this is 3 seconds faster than the current worlds best it seems a stretching target to say the least. Does anyone know where I can find the GMS that the GB guys are u

Horse-play! After sounding so self righteous in my last reply to Bill, I do confess to a troop behaviour problem. We have just returned with 9 older (13+) scouts, 6 boys and 3 girls, from a mountain walking camp in the Brecon Beacons. A bit of a step-up for us but hu

Play Nice Will be out for a few days for surgery should return by Saturday or Sunday - don't send me flowers!

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