What's a finish

Stephen Page · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 6

Help please.

We had a dead-heat yesterday which I captured on video and replayed to
try to pick a winner. There was a dead heat. That is, if you judge it
by the bow on the line.

One of the boats had a spinnaker up and the spinnaker went over the
line first, leaving respective bows dead in line.

We checked out the rules to get a definition of what constitutes a
finish. Bow on the line? Mast? Stern? Spinnaker? Bowsprit? I cannot
find the relevant rule in the rule book.

I do have a Handy Guide to the Rules produced by the RYA, which says
that its any part of the boat, its crew or its equipment, in their
normal position.

Can I support that in the actual rules with the definitive wording?
Nope.

Anyone help me out?

Archived from group: rec>boats>racing

Roy Smith · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 6

In article ,
"Stephen Page" wrote:

> Help please.
>
> We had a dead-heat yesterday which I captured on video and replayed to
> try to pick a winner. There was a dead heat. That is, if you judge it
> by the bow on the line.
>
> One of the boats had a spinnaker up and the spinnaker went over the
> line first, leaving respective bows dead in line.
>
> We checked out the rules to get a definition of what constitutes a
> finish. Bow on the line? Mast? Stern? Spinnaker? Bowsprit? I cannot
> find the relevant rule in the rule book.

The Racing Rules of Sailing (go to http://www.sailing.org/, then click
"Rules" navbar at the top of the page) gives the definition of "Finish" as:

"Finish A boat finishes when any part of her hull, or crew or equipment in
normal position, crosses the finishing line in the direction of the course
from the last mark, either for the first time or after taking a penalty
under rule 31.2 or 44.2 or, under rule 28.1, after correcting an error
made at the finishing line."

Assuming the boat with the spinnaker had it trimmed in some reasonable way
for the wind, leg of the course, etc, then based on how you described it,
I'd say they finished first.

Stephen Page · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 6

> Assuming the boat with the spinnaker had it trimmed in some reasonable way
> for the wind, leg of the course, etc, then based on how you described it,
> I'd say they finished first.

Thank you, Roy, we reached the same decision once we had the right
wording.

Off to the hypothetical for a moment. My son rigs his spinnaker
halyard wth an added knot that holds the head of the sail away from the
mast by six inches. For him, that is its normal position. However, not
everyone does it. So, if my son got protested for not having the kite
"in its normal position", I wonder how the Protest Committee would
interpret the definition.

Best wishes

G Jones · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 1

Stephen Page wrote:
> Off to the hypothetical for a moment. My son rigs his spinnaker
> halyard wth an added knot that holds the head of the sail away from the
> mast by six inches. For him, that is its normal position. However, not
> everyone does it. So, if my son got protested for not having the kite
> "in its normal position", I wonder how the Protest Committee would
> interpret the definition.

If there is a knot there, even if the knot is
only added on the last leg of the race, then that
is its normal position for the purposes of the finish.

Roy Smith · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 6

In article ,
"Stephen Page" wrote:
> Off to the hypothetical for a moment. My son rigs his spinnaker
> halyard wth an added knot that holds the head of the sail away from the
> mast by six inches. For him, that is its normal position. However, not
> everyone does it.

"Normal position" is one of those things like "proper course" which, to a
certain extent, is a judgment call. The intent of the definition of
finishing is to prevent you from sticking some part of the boat or crew out
in front of the bow for the sole purpose of getting it across the finish
line faster.

If you can show that the equipment has been in that position for most of
the downwind leg, that should be enough to convince a PC that it was in
it's normal position. With a stopper knot in the spin halyard, that should
be a no-brainer.

On the J/24, we'll sometimes let the spin halyard down about a foot in
light air. If somebody claimed that wasn't it's normal position, it would
be easy for me to point out that it's common practice, not just on our
boat, but on other boats in the class. If we had the chute that way for
the whole downwind leg, it should not be an issue. If, on the other hand,
I had somebody standing at the mast and had them let the halyard droop 12
inches just as we approached the finish line, that would NOT be the normal
position.

Likewise, it's a common tactic on a downwind finish to punch the boat down
when you're maybe a boatlength from the line. Since you're changing your
sailing angle, you need to ease the spin sheet to keep the sail properly
trimmed througout the maneuver. As long as you only eased the sheet that
amount which was required to keep it in proper trim, I'd say the sail was
in its normal position the whole time.

> So, if my son got protested for not having the kite
> "in its normal position", I wonder how the Protest Committee would
> interpret the definition.

It's always dangerous to try to predict what a Protect Committee will do Smile

However, not having a sail in its normal position isn't a violation of the
rules. Well, at least not the RRS; an individual class might have some
more explicit rule about it.

The onus is on the Race Committee to take your finish time properly. If
your spinnaker is out of its normal position at the finish, it's up to the
RC to record your time when you DO meet the definition of finishing. Let's
say you're in a sport boat with a retractable bowsprit. It's normal for
the sprit to be extended on an apparent beam reach, with the spinnaker
trimmed in hard. If, 1/2 boatlength from the finish, you suddenly ease the
spin sheet and let the sail billow out in front of the boat, the RC should
be alert enough to ignore when your sail crosses the line (because it's out
of normal postion) and take your time when the tip of your sprit crosses
the line (because it *is* in normal position).

If somebody protests you, your defense is that you didn't break any rules
by doing what you did. If you were truly a sportsman, you would suggest to
the protestor that the correct remedy to seek would be to request redress
from the RC because they incorrectly recorded your finish time. You would
then offer to testify at the redress hearing that you did indeed hear a
whistle from the RC a couple of seconds before you thought your sprit tip
crossed the line and suggest that your official finishing time should be
increased by that amount of time.

Obstruction - Start / Finish Line Our club prohibits crossing the start / finish line except to start or finish. The entire area, including nearby extensions of the start / finish line, are navigable. Our sailing instructions do not modify RRS 28.1 (the "string" rule) in this regard, so

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